This was a conversation had on my facebook page. I thought it interesting enough to share. (Names changes to protect all involved.)
The subject started with me posting that I was planning on voting for Ron Paul.
Eve: I like a lot of what he believes in, only problem is he is anti-semetic. As a Christian I believe America must stand with Israel,especially with Iran breathing threats.
Friday at 9:02pm
Adam: He isn't exactly anti-semetic. He isn't gonna go pick a fight with Iran just because Israel wants us to. He will however defend our allies. If Iran were to attempt attack on Israel he would no doubt defend them with all our might. There is a difference in not picking fights because others want you to and not backing someone. Iran is not currently our problem if they attack Israel or Israel attacks them THEN they are OUR problem and that is how he stands and I as a Christian can agree with that type of stance.
Yesterday at 1:01am
Eve: I would have to be sure of that,because God will bless those that bless Israel. If we don't we are in trouble that we will not recover from.
Yesterday at 1:08am
Eve: I think Iran IS the worlds problem right now.
Yesterday at 1:11am
Adam: Also, though the Bible does say God will bless those that bless Israel it is said in the Old Testament. You must remember that a lot changed or rather was fulfilled through Christ. In the Old Testament the Jews were God's Chosen people... Through Christ people of all nations have been grafted in to the family so now those who are reborn in Christ are God's chosen people and not the Jews. The land of Israel was given to the true Jews as an inheritance forever. However we know that this world will not exist forever and God does not lie. The bible tells of a New Jerusalem that is the inheritance of God's Chosen people through Christ. Now the promise is of a land not of this world through Christ and it seems clear to see that the saying God will bless those who bless Israel may not in-fact be for today. Just some food for though... I do not claim to know this of certainty so maybe keep an open mind and study it out for yourself.
Yesterday at 1:36am
Eve: It is forever.It is an everlasting covenant...that means forever. I have studied it out and I am already fully persuaded that this is what it means. I think of one Psalm in particular..Cant think of the number and cant get my concordance at the moment but anyway goes something like this....As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the Lord is round about his people, from this day forth,now and forevermore,Glory to the King. We are grafted in, not them cut out( used to believe in replacement theology,but I am convinced I was wrong).......I am praying for Gods man for the hour. We are desperately in need of someone who will put a stop to run away government. by the time we get to vote in our primary in Nebraska it will be pretty well decided who gets the nomination already. Anyone except Obama...the more conservative the better.thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Yesterday at 1:56am
Adam: Ok... You sound defensive and clearly didn't understand what I was saying. I am sorry. I did not bring this up to argue, though I do disagree with your understanding of the scriptures. So, I guess we will have to agree to disagree and this is my last post on the subject as I do not wish to continue a debate that obviously would go nowhere, though I could debate several of your points.
Yesterday at 2:44am
Chris (me): Okay, as this is my post let me have the last say on this issue. If either of you disagrees with me you are welcome to tell me as much off line. :) Please read all this as I address some of both sides of the coin.
I agree with Eve's take that those who bless Israel will be blessed. However, I think it needs to be expounded on. I believe Jesus came to fulfill the law, not replace it. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. His promises never cease. When he says that he will bless those that bless Abraham and his descendants I believe he meant it.
However, his covenant with those of Israel was based on the law. To keep the law was to be in convenant with God; to break it was to break covenant. He provided a way to cover over those sins by the sacrifices. Not long after the death (and resurrection) of Jesus the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed and the Jews stopped making animal sacrifices.
At that time Israel as a people were no longer in covenant. Even if they attempted to keep the law there is no atonement for their sins without the sacrifices.
But does that mean if the people of God started the sacrifices back up this would be resolved? No! Even before the destruction of the temple happened Jesus died as the Christ to be the final atonement. In him all could come close to God whether Jew or Gentile. The condition was no longer the law but rather a trust and reliance on God's sacrifice of his son. So now all who believe have an inheritance and are considered sons of Abraham with Israel.
I could be wrong but I believe, again, that no promise of God's is replaced here. I believe his promise is expanded. Those who bless the sons of Abraham will be blesses and those who curse them will be cursed. That includes the Jew as well as the Christian. The Jews may be out of covenant but that doesn't mean God is. He continues in his promises. The Jew may not go to heaven without Christ's atonement but while they live God will bless them.
So really, in blessing Israel I am sure there is some level of blessing on us but we should also remember that it would also be true of blessing any Christian/Jewish nation, state, city, family or person!
On the flip side I agree with Adam's statements about Ron Paul. Nothing Paul has said leads me to believe he is anti-semetic. Rather he is anti-involvement. Even that taken out of context would sound bad. He sees our government as too involved in both local and foreign politics. It was meant to be a minimal influence to keep the states together but not to take over. We live in a period of time where the government of the U S of A is creating laws that begin to encroach on our rights laid down in the Constitution as well as poking their nose into issues of other countries that are not our affair.
Iran is an issue for the world but if our government had its way we would most likely make a preemptive strike rather than wait for provocation. And sadly, it would not have anything to do with them threatening Israel but it would be used as an excuse to defend their actions.
Here are a few things that Ron Paul HAS said or expressed:
"We give $3 billion to Israel and $12 billion to her avowed enemies. How does that help Israel? And in return, we act like her master and demand veto power over her foreign policy."
As president, Howard said, Paul would "allow Israel to defend herself as she sees fit, without the permission and interference of the U.S. or the United Nations."
In the Haaretz interview, Paul said he had always made clear that his message was based on "the rights of all people" to be treated equally.
"Any type of racism or anti-Semitism is incompatible with my philosophy," he said.
So though Paul has, to my knowledge, never said what he would do if Iran attacked Israel I think based on the above statements and everything else we know of him we can guess that his administration would allow Israel to defend themselves in their own way without overriding those decision but be willing to help if Israel asked for assistance.
My thoughts at this point is that any other Republican candidate would give us more of the same thing we've gotten election after election without providing anything that would actually help our country. Ron Paul, however, has the character to actually make a difference.
Those are my two cents. Take 'em or leave 'em.
Yesterday at 9:35am
Visit Christian Eye at http://christian-eye.blogspot.com
No comments:
Post a Comment